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latenight1 |
Minority use of Charter/Magnet/Alternative schools |
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Thread for discussing ps alternatives to the traditional neighborhood school.
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latenight1 |
Re: Charter/Magnet/Alternative schools | ||
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Tiare
The school that my child attends is not a neighborhood school. The only people whose children attend one of our districts six high-scoring alternative schools are those who already know that these schools exist. (I am increasingly amazed to learn how few people in our district even know about the alternative schools and just send their children to any old neighborhood school). Despite the extremely diverse nature of our school district (Many races, economic backgrounds, and languages), these fantastic alternative schools are primarily attended by middle to upper middle classed caucasian families. All of these schools require parental participation, in and out of school. So where are the Black (or Hispanic, ftm) families? Where are the working class or the poor families? These, too, are public schools. Why don't they know about it? Is there anyone who can tell them? Perhaps I could, but where would I begin? If no one takes charge, organizes them into a public meeting, hands out flyers, or something to inform them of their options, few families will ever hear about these choices, and little will change. latenight1 Tiare, Do you mean that if I moved into your district and went into the appropriate office to register my kids they wouldn't give me a piece of paper that said "Do you want your child to go to A) nearby school or B) further school that specializes in X,Y,Z, requiring parent participation"? How would people not know about these alternate public schools? If that is the case it is the fault of the schools for not getting the word out. Are the parents unable to devote the time for particapation so take the easier option? I have little experience and no answers for this topic. The only thing I can think of is that the community needs a galvinizing leader- on the scale of MLK- who will help and encourage the families to change their habits. I can't think of anyone who has high enough stature with the community to do such a thing. I am sure there are several willing, but they are probably swimming against a current that is too strong. The sports and music figures don't seem to have taken a strong stand (and besides, they made their success in arenas that are non-academic.) lunita1 I'm in the same district as Tiare so I'll answer. To get your child into one of these schools, you have to put your child's name into a lottery by a certain date, usually in January of the year previous to when you'd like your child to start attending the school. You have to be at an office at a certain time on a certain date to fill out the form. On the form, you can list three schools in your order of preference. If you don't get into any of them via the lottery, you are put on the waiting list for your first-ranked school. If you miss the lottery (either because you didn't know or move into the district after January) then some/most schools will put you on the waiting list behind everyone else (which, at popular schools like Amanda's, means you have almost no chance to get in.) The lottery isn't highly publicized, and its implications are even less publicized -- it is possible hear that there is open enrollment on a given date, but not know that there are schools that you can only get into via open enrollment, that they have special programs, etc. If you go to the district's website, you can find information about our schools but only by digging (click on ""schools", then "special programs/alternative schools", then scroll past information on special ed and continuation schools to a paragraph that mentions open and fundamental schools and links you to the pages about the individual schools. The enrollment page states: "In addition to our resident schools, the XYZ School District offers several special programs and schools for elementary, middle and high school students. These options include Fundamental, Open-Structured, ROTC, Rapid-Learner, High Achiever, International Baccalaureate, and Honors programs; programs with a special subject or career focus; block schedules; English language development, and special education." It also gives the dates for open enrollment, but it never explicitly states that if some of those programs are only available based on test scores and some are available through the open enrollment lottery. Anyway, the process isn't well publicized and neither are the schools. There's no bus service to these schools since they have district-wide attendance boundaries; this puts the burden on the parents to transport kids to school instead of letting the kids take the bus. Most people hear about the open and fundamental schools from friends who have kids at the school, which perpetuates the lack of diversity. People who move into the area after January of the year before they want their kids to attend school here also simply don't have a chance to get their kids into the special schools. Amanda's school is 85% white and less than 1% black (and also has a high percentage of parents who are college graduates or have graduate degrees.) The minority kids who live in the apartments across the street from the school ride the bus to a neighborhood school that's is 67% white and 9% black (and also has a number of Russian, Ukrainian, and Romanian immigrants, which our school lacks). It's true that Amanda's school requires more time (and financial) commitment than many families can give, but I also think that if the programs were more widely understood and publicized, we'd have a more diverse school population. |
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denpratt |
Re: Charter/Magnet/Alternative schools | ||
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Yes, better implementation would help. But more importantly, IMO, if the parents become clear that it is they who must advocate for their children, must uncover the information, must jump every silly bureaucratic hurdle in order to help their children, more parents would find out.
If you have a ward of the state mentality, however, you wait to be told what to do. When the government screws up the job, you blame *them* and whine and play victim. And you never advance. Determination to advocate and assist your child, regardless of how well bureaucrats do their jobs and no matter what is 'properly advertised' is key, because there is never perfect information and things can always be implemented better. One of the main lessons I am instilling into Vivian is illustrated by this exchange we engage in at least every other day: D: "Who's in charge of taking care of Vivian?" V: "Vivian" I pray daily for a charismatic leader who coaches the parents better ways to parent. "Who's responsible for taking care of you and your family?" |
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Tiare1975 |
Re: Charter/Magnet/Alternative schools | ||
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Well, our school district is finally starting to take notice of our alternative school programs, but the attention is not good at all.
Earlier this evening, I attended a school meeting to discuss the future of our alternative (fundamental) school, as well as our districts other five alt. schools. We have a new superintendent whose mission is to "save" our district and balance a dwindling budget due to declining enrollment. In ten years, our district's enrollment has dropped from 52,000 students to 40,000. Unfortunately, we have lost millions in funding because of it. The higher the home prices soar here in Northern California, the faster the exodus of young families. Others who can afford it seek out the newer, hotter neighborhoods instead of the more established areas in our district. One of the superintendent's visions for "improvement" is to close and consolidate elementary schools. While not a bad plan in general, I am floored as to why he would strongly consider the alternative schools! Our enrollment is far from declining (people knocking down the doors to get their kids in!). Our test scores, at all 6 schools, are outstanding. Our reputations are stellar. So he wants to end the programs as we know them and turn them into typical neighborhood schools. How does this compute, even from a business perspective? Many of the families at tonight's meeting declared that if the alternative schools are done away with, they, too, would find a way to leave the district. We are likely included. If the goal is to attract families and good teachers to our district, shouldn't we find ways to bring the remaining schools up to the level of the alts.? Shouldn't our schools, which require parental participation and are filled with eager, involved families, be a model instead of a sacrifice? Finally, we discussed radical ways the district can be revamped in order to improve school quality and increase spending efficiency. Are K-6, 7-8, and 9-12 schools no longer working? Would massive restructuring fix our district's problems? What a headache! By the way, I stood up and gave three impassioned speeches on mike. |
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sharonr899 |
Re: Charter/Magnet/Alternative schools | ||
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Way to go, Tiare!!!
I believe that impassioned parents can make a difference (especially if they have well-reasoned out arguments backed up with facts Sharon |
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denpratt |
Re: Charter/Magnet/Alternative schools | ||
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Congratulations Tiare. Three speeches! You leader, you!
I suggest you go back and revisit the thread about why have public schools at all and the thread on school choice. You seem to be under some serious misperceptions. even from a business perspective? The benefit of public schools is that they do not operate on a business perspective, but a political, legistlative, and grant perspective. A business would look at its most profitable schools and replicate those. So if one of its schools had "people knocking down the doors to get their kids in", they would replicate that, and if enrollment in "typical neighborhood schools" was "declining", they would move funds away from this. As Adam Smith noted, the businesses would do this for no ulterior motive of 'good', however the superintendent or legistlature wanted to define 'good'. They'd do it only because it was 'profitable' -- oooh, that ugly word again But the schools have no interest in that ugly thing called 'profit', that insulting indication that customers like something so much that they value it much more than it costs. They are only interested in clean money coming from extorted 'tax dollars' and good intentioned programs 'grants'. 'Tax dollars' depend primarily on housing values. Getting rid of lower class increases the tax base. And ideally, they'd have plenty of tax dollars and no children in the classes -- since the children are an expense. So threats to "find a way to leave the district" is actually attractive to them (it would not be to a business, or to a school that relied on choice for funds...) Grants supplant parents' interest with legislator's interests. Of course, politicians are the wisest and kindest and most altruistic, so we should all be happy to allow them, and not confused parents, control what gets funded and what does not. (Libertarian rant off) |
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Tiare1975 |
Re: Charter/Magnet/Alternative schools | ||
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That's just it, Dennis. The superintendent is not looking for ways to weed out the lower class families, so to speak. The Title I schools are getting first priority to remain untouched. The alternative schools in question are largely attended by middle to upper middle class families. At last night's meeting, I listened to a few fathers voice thier resolve to move to wealthier, more dynamic communities with better school districts should the alternative schools be dissolved.
How would such a decision make any sense at all? |
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denpratt |
Re: Charter/Magnet/Alternative schools | ||
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Well, you only have to look at his incentives. Maybe he gets special kudos for having more Title 1 schools?
A few years ago the economics Nobel went to a guy who basically said, you still look at the incentives, even if the incentives are not in dollars. Political decisions are still 'profit maximization', with profit some wierd function of personal status, favors, contributions, oower, and dollars. |
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sharonr899 |
Re: Charter/Magnet/Alternative schools | ||
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It makes absolutely no sense at all, which is why I think that the parents will get their way
Sharon |
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talexand |
Re: Charter/Magnet/Alternative schools | ||
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I think that many districts only look at the finances. The city near us had a new superintendent who closed three elementary schools. This is what they deemed necessary to fit int he budget due to lowered enrollment. THe schools that were closed were three with the highest academic record. But they were the easiest to merge with other nearby schools or they were costing the most in busing or who knows what financial reason. it is so crazy to do away with the schools that work.
Our local public school is one of three small schools in a huge district. Small schools are more expensive per child than large schools. Ours is small because it is a country school. These kids would bus a long way without the school. But still it has been clear that it is the first on the chopping block if it comes to that. So far, so good though. The one time it was very close to being chopped organized and passionate protest and inspired speaches did seem to help. Terry |
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captuhura |
Re: Charter/Magnet/Alternative schools | ||
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Way to go Tiare!!!
It sounds rediculous and I hope the parents can prevent this from happening. |
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Ann in KY |
Re: Charter/Magnet/Alternative schools | ||
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Don't know if this is the right thread for this article (so feel free to move it), but I thought this was interesting.
www.wm.edu/as/news/index.php?id=7898 |
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denpratt |
Re: Charter/Magnet/Alternative schools | ||
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Yes. Article could fit in Diversity topic, and Homogenous Schools as well!
Initial situation is white parents are more likely to use freedom to assist their children, because black parents have been wards of the state for so long. Over time, black parents will start taking more responsibility for their children's education, leading to many additional benefits for their children. Does the best solution have to be 'integrated' schools? So far, that is yet another constraint on the outcome. What if the best solution is not? (See Homogenous Schools) |
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denpratt |
Magnat School idea | ||
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Article in City Journal overviews some law envorcement magnet schools. (Magnet
schools are one step above 'open enrollment' and three steps below 'charter schools' on the parental freedom scale. They are public schools
run by government administrators, government teachers, and union contract. They have a special learning focus. In additional to their local kids who may go
as though to their local school, they accept students from other neighborhoods who have to apply. They have the same one-size-fits-all academic requirements.)
The "LAPD High" schools are focused on serving students who want to enter law enforcement. They use active duty police officers on site to mentor students. There is much more phsyical fitness (weight lifting, mile run, obstacle course...) Fewer than half of LA public school kids graduate from high school, and less than 16% of Hispanic graduate with classes that qualify them for college. (LAPD High is 75-95% Hispanic.) The LAPD graduate 70-90%, with most 'dropouts' going to other schools rather than the street and most of the kids go to college or to military. Note how this approach serves a particular, narrow segment more fully by its focus. Note how choice affects not just academic performance, but also retention and morals. I am also curious how having male mentors present in the school, role models of the jobs that they would like, and slanting all the courses to fit into the big theme of law enforcement, helps make school 'real' and relevant in the same way as the old apprenticeship programs?
Last Edited By: denpratt
07/02/09 08:21 AM.
Edited 1 times.
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captuhura |
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Yes Yes and Yes! I would think the male mentors are key.
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SgtAmi |
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I am less than enamored with magnet schools. We were in a magnet school and it really didn't feel like choice. We had to apply in early Feb and find out
in late April. We got to have 3 choices and we got our 3rd choice. However, in that interim period, the principal and magnet theme were changed. The computer
instructer was different too. Gone was the great, parent friendly website that was a major draw for us, gone was the principal who pushed heavy parent
volunteering, and even allowed parents to work in classrooms with their younger children tagging along, etc.
A friend of mine had her kids in our school for magnet, then her oldest wanted to go to their base middle school because of the magnet theme there. However, since it was his base school, he lost magnet status. When it was time to go to high school, he did not get in the magnet high school with same theme. He had to go to their base high school. Then for his sophmore year, the school destricted (again) and moved his base high school to another school and gave the old base the magnet theme that he wanted. He had to reapply to stay at the school he was already attending to get the magnet he wanted. Unfortunately, he didn't get the lottery.
Ami
"But it's not just learning things that's important. It's learning what to do with what you learn and learning why you learn things at all that matters." Phantom Tollbooth |
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Purplecow7 |
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Our County has two Magnet Schools for the Arts and Sciences. We were lucky because our GT center is located at the Magnet school so my oldest got in. We
applied for my dd in frist and did not get in, we re-applied for second and she got in. We found out there were over 350 application for only 5 slots for
second grade. The only criteria is that you must be working at or above grade level and have no behavioral issues. We were told it was based on a lottary.
However, dd had O - the highest mark on everything for every behavior category and she got in - not sure how random it is. They do allow sibling to have
priority if they are currently in the Magnet school, however sibling at the GT center don't count. So now that she got into GT, we have lost the sibling
priority for the twins. However, we may still try it next year. The program at our Magnet school has not changed much over the years accept to add more
services. However, this year with budget cuts there will be a few minor changes to the programs.
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denpratt |
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Ami, I'm surprised that they only did it for segregation. I often thought this was one of the things they did to head off charter schools. How sad that
they
You point out several problems with magnet schools: limited availability, lottery acceptance, not consistent identity over time, not consistent theme within school, etc. These are all problems primarily due to magnet schools not really be a free market solution, but instead a government patch over a broken government solution, but for some reason I thought that the solution was better matching of supply of educational approaches and demand of educational interests, not checkmarks on some racial score card. |
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SgtAmi |
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It is my understanding that magnet schools were created to improve diversity in way that is voluntary instead of forced busing. Here is an article on the
basics of magnet schools. While our district is "lottery", they also prescreen applicants.
Diversity is considered as a criteria for acceptance but extenuating circumstances are not. For example, we have a GT magnet that ability groups gifted kids.
It is a school that families of gifted kids want (and it was our first choice every year). However, your race is considered for the lottery but test scores are
not. They don't care what your IQ is and you are not allowed to send that information in.
Ami
"But it's not just learning things that's important. It's learning what to do with what you learn and learning why you learn things at all that matters." Phantom Tollbooth |
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captuhura |
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I thought Magnet schools were open enrollment but could also have a focus that public schools do not. I like the LAPD High Dennis mentioned above. It sounds
like it worked really well for that segment of the population. We need more of that!
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